break this theory

Review and comment “On How the Brain Functions” theory.

Theory – Teleport Hypothesis

with 83 comments

Hypothetically, if we were teleported to an other place, atom by atom, we would physically resemble the same person. In my view, however, our memory would be blank and our thoughts would be on the level of a new born.

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Written by Tomi Itkonen

January 1, 2007 at 9:23 pm

83 Responses

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  1. Perhaps, that’s the only way to stop all the wars – for a while. Teleport 6 billion people to another place and make their mind blank. “What the heck! What’s this? And that?” But, if physical resemblance is possible, why wouldn’t the mental one be?

    Joni Tuoreniemi

    February 9, 2007 at 2:44 am

    • Hello !

      As the memory of us is just a state of our neurons, the memory will also teleportated, by atom to atom.

      Zsolt Seller

      October 21, 2010 at 7:05 pm

      • As the DNA will remain, unfortunately the memory clearing is not enough !!

        Zsolt Seller

        November 26, 2010 at 2:19 pm

      • Hi,

        I am living in the Salvation Army’s homeless hostel, in 1086 Budapest, Dobozi utca ( street ) 29., Hungary.

        If you can send me newspapers on this subject, I would be very grateful.

        If you don’t clear the original object, you will have two or more from the same. In this case you can be anywhere in the Universe ! And don’t forget Jesus’ wonders, create from a few a lot, like fishes…

        To make ourselves healthy, it is a good way, to not teleport the ill parts.

        Zsolt Seller

        December 27, 2010 at 2:05 pm

  2. Firstly, teleportation can be discussed only on a highly hypothetical level as it does not yet have any scientific basis.

    The mental resemblance vanishes, because the waves are not teleported. In other words the state of the mind, which consists of moving electromagnetic waves, does not get copied and rebuilt through the process.

    Consider that there were a method of teleporting a copper wire. Each atom of the wire would be scanned to get a 3D snapshot of the object. Then the atoms would be reconstructed a long distance away, according to the snapshot, and we’d get a similar copper wire. But: if there were data (waves) moving on the wire at the time of teleportation, how would you “record” a snapshot of the moving electromagnetic waves, and then after the teleported wire is ready, release similar moving waves on it.

    Another way to put this: you can put the water of a river to tanks, and transport it elsewhere, but you can not move the flow of the river.

    Tomi Itkonen

    February 10, 2007 at 1:40 am

    • you could postulate that due to the wave particle duality of objects any information that is in the form of a wave is also in the form of a particle in which this hypothetical type of teleportation would not only teleport out likeness in physicality but also in mentality.

      TaylorRobertson

      February 18, 2010 at 9:35 am

    • You make a good point. However, if you put the water of one river into a different river, it will flow and asimilate. Since brain can operate almost anywhere on earth, the brain would simply reboot like a computer. Memories are stored in the physical brain. When we access memories, the memory moltinizes and becomes electrical.If the person teleporting thinks during the process, the memory will be erased because it becomes a signal. Brain waves access and translate the stored information. In other words, brainwaves cannot be teleported, but the physical brain can.(in therory)Also this raises another question. How long would it take for the brain to reboot? I say this because the brain would be dead for the duration of the teleportation. It would reboot in Delta and probally give the teleporter temporary amnesia.

      Brian

      May 3, 2010 at 11:33 am

  3. Tomi Itkonen i am afraid your missing a point, the concept of ‘teleportation’ is that yes, a 3-D snapshot of the object is taken and is supposedly transferred to another place. There are two ways in which this could happen.

    1. The object is broken down to a molecular scale and tranferred to another place, which doesnt comply with the non-teleportation theorum.

    or

    2. The object is recorded in a snapshot and then recreated in another place. Which doesn’t comply with the no-cloning theorum

    Both of these, if possible, can possibly prove your theory wrong, although a humans mind is stored in electromagnetic waves, or pulses, these pulses are also a physical being which is active and would therefore be found and copied, and assuming you make it through the teleportaion you would either be the same person, or you would have an exact clone of youself from that point onwards.

    The other problem is that teleportation requires the dissassembly and reassembly, or just assembly, of atoms and in option 1 the human would die as they are disassebled, in option 2 the human clone would be dead.

    Paul Tudsbury

    April 28, 2007 at 7:51 am

    • Are you sure cause when i did it in halo it worked fine

      BOB

      November 5, 2009 at 3:12 am

      • I agree i mean Spac from startrek can do it. Y cant i.

        Brandon

        March 8, 2010 at 10:04 am

  4. Hi Paul. About teleportation… At this point, it seems inconceivable to imagine a method for releasing an electromagnetic wave, remotely, into a specific point in 3D space.

    However, that might be possible in the future, or there even could be a way of achieving it now, already.

    Tomi Itkonen

    September 12, 2007 at 10:35 pm

  5. Hello guys, can you really be sure that the human mind and memory waves are not created by the physical structure of the brain and therefore will be sent as they were before the teleportation? I mean the electromagnetic waves have to be created somehow they cannot just be, as Tomi said: “Another way to put this: you can put the water of a river to tanks, and transport it elsewhere, but you can not move the flow of the river.” BUT if you take along the stones and the bottom of the river and recreate it in the same heights and so on, will not the flow be the same ?

    Sebastian Svensson

    July 24, 2008 at 6:04 pm

    • We learn about unknowns through questions and why we asked those specific questions. Could it be possible to trace the origin of the electromagnetic waves then understand their flow and direct it towards an objective to where its original disposition would be to where we wouldnt teleport into a random location but where the electromagnetic waves were intended to be transferred to? Take the part of the river and bring it to where it should be naturally naturally but at a further point not requiring travel down the river. The only problem I see is you would have to know the river and understand all parts and interactions to very high extremes to account for the balance that it represents. But this would be very useful if mastered, yet first one must master himself and the river which has niether has been done before.

      S am A llen T aylor

      December 26, 2010 at 2:21 am

  6. Hi Sebastian.

    Generally, from a distance, the flow of the transported river would be the same if both of the rivers had identical structure. But then you factor in the small, intricate details that affect the flow upstream: the changing wind conditions, the dropping leaves from the trees nearby, etc. Each of those leave their miniscule mark to the actual flow. In other words, when a leaf drops to the river, it generates small waves which change the body of water – the flow of the river.

    So, copying of the riverbed is not enough in this case. One also has to copy the history of the river upstream.

    Regarding “…the electromagnetic waves have to be created somehow…”:
    This theory suggests that the things we e.g. hear and see generate changing electrical current and electromagnetic waves which start travelling in our brains. To use the river analogy, when we experience something, the flow of our “inner river” changes.

    Tomi Itkonen

    August 3, 2008 at 1:00 am

    • I think that the mental waves that are flowing through our brains must be made of the same “physical” particles our atoms are made of. several particles have been observed, even though they have no mass or actual substance, including the neutrio. If the snapshot required for the teleportation would recognize all protons, neutrons, and electrons making up the atoms of our body, i think it would be more than capable of observing the particles not trapped within the atoms, such as the photons and electrons that create the electric/electromagnetic waves flowing through our nerves.

      EHack

      August 13, 2009 at 8:19 am

  7. well if teleportation is a dissesembling and ressembling of atoms than the electro magnetic waves should have a chance of going with u on your trip since everything is made up of atoms and that fact should not be exploited

    i dont even no

    August 28, 2008 at 8:16 pm

  8. and also if teleportatoin is cloning than cloning will make u come out the other end with every aspect of ur old self physical and mental so its a win win

    i dont even no

    August 28, 2008 at 8:23 pm

  9. I presume you are all missing the point. How it actually works is our thought patterns are recording in the atoms much like a cd is an emulation of the data stored. This is why people see ghosts, which are nothing more than recordings in the surrounding walls and items. These are also made up with the same building blocks we call matter. Let’s think outside the box, as it were.

    Engineer8296

    September 12, 2008 at 11:35 am

  10. Teleportation is a fool’s folly for a transportation method. It could have medical applications in organ reconstruction, cancer and bacterial/viral removal.
    Basic steps to teleportation
    1. Scan object (enzyme signature, atomic signatures, molecular construction)
    2. DESTROY object at origination point.
    3. Create object at destination from available material.
    4. Program and jump-start higher level organism.
    For medical applications, only part of the process is used.

    vlcncwntr2012

    September 13, 2008 at 8:47 am

    • Maybe to stop cancer we just no longer teleport the cancerous tumors? lol if it were only that easy

      S am A llen T aylor

      December 26, 2010 at 2:23 am

  11. “Generally, from a distance, the flow of the transported river would be the same if both of the rivers had identical structure. But then you factor in the small, intricate details that affect the flow upstream: the changing wind conditions, the dropping leaves from the trees nearby, etc. Each of those leave their miniscule mark to the actual flow. In other words, when a leaf drops to the river, it generates small waves which change the body of water – the flow of the river.”

    So if I am walking in the desert at the time of teleportation, and am teleported to an iceberg in Alaska, obviously I will go from being hot to being cold. It is a completely irrelevant point to be made.

    Considering that teleportation would be a nearly instantanous process, the current physical state of the object being teleported would be identical at the moment of recreation, which is, consequently, all teleportation portends to do in the first place. The flow of the river (as per your example) may change AFTER teleportation has concluded, due to “miniscule” factors that you have listed, but that does not have any effect on the validity of teleportation.

    Also, you should consider the teleportation of an object from its current location to its current location, which is absolutely possible since the original would be destroyed and recreated. If you were to teleport the riverbed in place, the miniscule factors that exist outside the transported area would still be there at the conclusion of the teleportation process, and would still affect the riberbed just as they did prior to teleportation.

    You also have to consider that external actions on the river itself (i.e. jumping into it) disrupt the natural flow of the river itself. So a leaf falling from a tree, though it has an extremely minimal effect on the flow of the river, is actually a disruption of the normal flow of the river — it is temporary, not constant. You had said, “it generates small waves which change the body of water – the flow of the river.” Again, those waves are a temporary occurence that are almost immediately disspitated by the natural flow of the river (which is created by the structure of the riverbed itself, the subject of teleportation). And yes, you could say that some external actions have a permanent effect on the riverbed. After all, it was via external forces (i.e. landslides etc) that the riverbed was created in the first place, thereby dictating the flow of water. But it would be folly to state that teleportation does not work because it doesnt take into account the future occurences of external actions on the riverbed at its previous location that would have or might have affected the course of the rivers flow.

    ~M

    M Ward

    September 13, 2008 at 2:55 pm

    • you realize that it seems to be that we forget the little things that happen everyday. that is a given, but that we could still account for the things that make our mental map up. I like that idea.

      S am A llen T aylor

      December 26, 2010 at 2:25 am

  12. Very interesting comments. Mainly my view is that on teleportation, the state of our brain (thoughts, memories, i.e. “data flow”) does not get carried across.

    But, of course, if the teleportation method used accesses the very bottom of atomic fabric – which is largely unknown and a mystery at the moment (string theory, …) – then I’d see the “data flow” is also copied over on the process.

    Regarding M Ward’s: “leafs falling from tree create waves which are only *temporary* occurences”. On our brains, I’d suggest that some of the waves actually do not vanish and travel constantly, transforming on the process. You perhaps remember some song you heard a few years back? The point I’m trying to make is that our brains are a carrier of waves (electromagnetic ones). Some of the waves vanish (forgetting occurs), some keep on travelling. Everything is turned into a wave: the words you read, the images you see, the muscle movements of the fingers…

    Tomi Itkonen

    September 13, 2008 at 11:31 pm

  13. well it doesnt really even matter not like were gonna do anything with teleportation any way

    i dont even no

    September 14, 2008 at 1:47 am

  14. guys I just figured out how to teleport things by using 1000 jolts of electricity. What you do is you use negative and Positive electricity you use the negative electricity to vaporize and collect all the atoms put through a machine that remakes the form of the object most likely using radioactive magnetism then letting it come out through positive electricity, sorry that’s as far as I got.

    Ben Allen

    March 19, 2009 at 3:40 am

  15. Do you know that Scientists actually manged to Teleport 1 atom with a Collosal amount of equipment?
    How much equipmant do you actually need to teleport a WHOLE person??

    Jim

    May 18, 2009 at 5:56 am

    • Computers started large and are small now, ftw. But maybe if we could convert what we are made of into electrons then we could flow like electricity and reconvert. I dont see the government allowing scientists to test for that tho.

      S am A llen T aylor

      December 26, 2010 at 2:28 am

  16. Hi Jim. It would be great to have a link to the experiment you mention.

    Tomi Itkonen

    May 19, 2009 at 12:37 am

  17. The disolution of the matter being transported requires a full mapping of the atomic material, that is, a mapping which is resolved to the detail of hadrons or below. Likewise, the subsequent materialization will require the construction of the transported material at an equivalent resolution. Although characterizing sensation or memory as “signal” waves (i.e: a river flowing) is probably making the challenge much less daunting, the extreme sub-atomic accuracy of the successful teleporter would also transport the generated waves. They would be replicated in momentary accuracy because their presence would be “frozen” in static forms of the electrons of the molecules of the “conductor.” When the atomic structure is reassembled, all the conductive participants of the wave transmission would also be reassembled, the wave would “reform,” and propagate as if its reassembled position were adjacent to its last location just before dematerialization.

    So? There’s nothing to it!

    Chad Hall

    June 1, 2009 at 12:36 pm

  18. Hello Tomi. Your hypothesis just seems ilogical for me. I did like the comment from Paul Tudsbury and I think You didn’t get the point of him.

    In some of your comments You are speaking about fictional teleportation system. You mention: “very bottom of atomic fabric – which is largely unknown and a mystery at the moment (string theory, …)”. However at least I haven’t heard that our thoughts would be connected to quantum fields or something. I am wondering where did you read it…

    You claim that our mind is in poor electromagnetic waves state. Well that should make our thoughts to be as “fast” as light. Moreover that should make our brains to be particularly effected by the “noises” from enviroment. However we use devices like mobile phones and our thoughts doesn’t get disorted.

    I have learned at school that neaurons transmit signals among each other throught chemical reactions. I beleave that all the processes in our brains are based on chemical reactions.

    You might argue that chemical reactions are based on electromagnetic waves and even super-strigs are envolved. Well yes, I agree. However those theories are just like the wires for device (the divece won’t function without them, however wires are not the key which gives a function for that device).

    A kid does not need to know how the electricity work to explain that, if electricity is ON the light will shine. I believe that in the similar manier we can explain how our brains works without getting deep in string theories and light waves.

    Ski

    June 8, 2009 at 4:59 am

    • I have no problem with — at least temporarily — relieving the discussion of the complications which would be insinuated into the mix by both quantum and “string theory” (in the Hilbert “trans dimensional sense, at least). When we adhere more closely to defining the teleportation concept based on self-observation of what the “before and after” states might be, the focus of questions lands pretty squarely on what we think “we are doing right now” — that is, what is our state when we are opening the door to go into the teleportation booth for a quick trip somewhere. Those conclusions imply necessary aspects of what the process will be doing.

      On the other hand, since we are “dreaming,” quantum entanglement might seriously expand to range of our teleporter, suggest a novel approach to “rematerialization,” and make our teleportation system an instantaneous “bullet train” to any location in the universe.

      After we have perfected solutions to those small dilemmas, we can begin to plan some way to get the machinery for the “receiving end” to these destinations in the first place. Somehow, a thirty thousand year trip in a light speed freighter doesn’t really seem to “fill the bill.”

      Chad Hall

      June 8, 2009 at 10:48 pm

  19. In theory it would only be possible if we have COMPLETE understanding of the human body. If you can break down every single part of I.E the brain into data (Experiences, thoughts, feelings etc.) and have the means to reconstruct it at the other side the “clone” would be you. However, you still have the problem that if you destoy something at the other side the thing that comes out might be EXACTLY the same but still not have the same conciousness. That would prove people have some sort of a soul. That even if you copy ALL functions, completely reconstruct the brain the person would STILL be different.

    Guido

    June 17, 2009 at 11:21 pm

  20. There is no particularly persuasive argument that humans are designed in a manner making COMPLETE understanding much of a possibility. Our semantic narcotic, “truth,” is best relegated to a status of “temporarily accurate.” Waiting for a convincing encounter with COMPLETE understanding of anything might prove frustratingly elusive for the realists among us.

    But, dreaming around on a site addressing teleportation pretty well excludes such stuffy folks. In any event, I see no reason which makes a “COMPLETE understanding of the brain” a prerequisite
    condition for teleporting one successfully.

    In the meantime, I have three pieces of luggage aside from my carry on, and I would prefer a seat with a “view.”

    Chad Hall

    June 18, 2009 at 8:56 am

  21. I’m afraid that there are some fundamental scientific misunderstandings of the brain at work in this discussion which are clouding the issue.

    Data is neither stored nor transmitted in the brain as “electromagnetic waves.” The brain does GENERATE electromagnetic waves, but as a not nearly in the same way that electricity travelling through a copper wire does. I’ll keep the my explanation of nerve impulses brief (therefore it will have some inaccuracies by omission)

    Neurons receive/send impulses to their neighbors at a junction called a synapse through a totally chemical process using neurotransmitters. Given a teleporter that could “copy every atom” then the chemistry at a synapse would be preserved.

    To carry a signal along a neuron (from input to output) it uses a fairly complex reaction of VOLTAGE POTENTIAL — ie at resting state, organelles in the surface of the neuron pump charged ions in/out of the cell so that the voltage outside the cell is different than the voltage inside the cell. When a neuron is activated at the input synapse, the area area around the cell literally opens, allowing the charged ions on either side of the membrane to start flowing in/out of the cell through the natural tendency of the universe to neutralize voltage. This causes a chain reaction, with areas of the cell further on also opening to allow ion flow. This process runs very quickly along the cell body, and that’s how an impulse is carried along a single neuron. This change in potential along the cell body is what creates an electromagnetic wave.

    This process carries signals very quickly through a neuron, something like 250 meters per second (for mylenated neurons — an unimportant detail for this discussion). This is much faster than the action at a synapse but much SLOWER than C, the speed of light. Thinking of the brain as a network of copper wires is folly.

    There’s another reason the copper wire analogy is wrong — unlike wires, the brain is constantly rewiring itself, forming/breaking connections between neurons. Memories/thoughts/preferences/personality do not appear to be stored as impulses, but rather in the wiring between cells. Thinking of your brain as a bit of computer RAM isn’t really accurate!

    Personally, I believe that if you could transfer every bit of matter (and it’s current velocity!) from one position to another, you would have ‘the same person’ on the other end.

    But i’d like to point out that the deep question we are discussing is not teleportation, but one of Neurophilosophy — IE what is the mind? (Guido was hinting at this in his post above….)

    There are two competing schools of thought: Materialism and Dualism.

    Materialists believe that everything that makes up life and consciousness is represented in it’s totality in the physical being and construction of the body/brain. A materialist world view precludes a soul, spirit, animating force, or even a seperation between the ‘mind’ and the brain.

    Dualists, on the other hand, tend to view the brain as something of a vessel for some kind of other life-force, whatever you want to call it. This is not an unscientific viewpoint, there is evidence (personal, anecdotal, and empirical) that the ‘self’ is connected to but not fully rooted in, the brain.

    Personally, as someone who studies brain injury, I am a materialist. I have seen too many people who have suffered brain damage in some way (physical, pathological, biological) which has altered their person in such profound ways as to convince me that I *am* my brain. So for that reason, I do believe, given technology that could recreate all my matter at a second location exactly then destroy my matter at the original location, that I would still be “me” and I would be effectively teleported. A dualist would not believe this idea, and that unless we could understand how this “other” portion of living/thinking works and recreate that as well, teleportation would not work.

    I am reminded of the movie The Fly (the Jeff Goldblum one) which in it’s own scientifically facetious way comes out strongly on the side of dualism.

    Here are some interesting thought experiments which I often ask to people to determine if they are, at their core, dualists or materialists:

    1.) Let’s say you have a teleportaion machine that works perfectly, as described, except that it does not destroy the original. One second after teleportation, the two individuals would have had different experiences and therefore be different, but AT THE VERY MOMENT of teleportation, would they be truly identical?

    2.) Would a teleportation machine that copies an individual moment at a fixed moment in time and then destroy the original also be a murder machine? Would not destroying the original you effectively be a form of suicide?

    3.) Let’s say we can create artificial intelligence as smart and self-aware as a human. Would that computer have as strong a right-to-life as a human?

    4.) Let’s say we can take a 3-D snapshot of your brain, and recreate your brain exactly inside of a computer, and then destroy the original you at that same instant. Would you be dead or alive?

    OK, time to get back to work! 🙂

    Neil

    July 17, 2009 at 3:46 pm

    • Hi Neil.

      Thanks for the insightful comment!

      “Memories/thoughts/preferences/personality do not appear to be stored as impulses, but rather in the wiring between cells.”

      To my knowledge, that’s the mainstream view, reminiscent of a switchboard full of copper wires.

      Consider the thoughts you are having now… Are you suggesting the wiring between cells must be changing all the time in order to generate new thoughts for you? Do you see that without this constant fiddling of connections between neurons, there wouldn’t be any thoughts?

      In my view, thinking of the brain as a network of copper wires, like a switchboard, is folly. 😉

      Regarding voltage potential, here are some links describing the equivalent circuit of a neuron:

      http://www.mindcreators.com/NeuronModel.htm
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_potential

      Tomi Itkonen

      February 21, 2010 at 11:56 pm

      • What if teleportation completely disrupts the balance of life and fucks up the whole bigger picture of life and its meaning, so the secret to it has been locked away in our brains. Maybe random dissapearances were just people who thought of what it takes to unlock teleportation and they are in a completely different reality. Or maybe you teleport when you die and thats why people believe in heaven/hell, the guy that mastered himself and came back wrote a book to keep you from teleporting to hell? WHO THE FUCK KNOWS!!!!!!! I cant believe anything

        S am A llen T aylor

        December 26, 2010 at 2:39 am

      • Hey Tomi —

        I realize you posted this a year ago or more — gosh i’ve been busy until recently.

        The question you’re asking, is, roughly — “what is a thought?” and that a tough one to answer.

        I think based on my experience that a thought arises from every function of the brain, and tends to occur on more of a large scale level. In other words, a new thought isn’t a new connection or a single neuron firing — but it’s large groups of neurons firing, rewiring, and the pattern in which they fire.

        It’s known, for instance, that the degree of synchronicity with which neurons fire has some effect on what the brain does.

        Neil

        June 7, 2011 at 8:15 pm

    • Maybe we are both separated from our brain and we are our brain at the same time. Kind of like different dimensions to ourselves/our personality/our actions/natural disposition

      S am A llen T aylor

      December 26, 2010 at 2:34 am

  22. Can I teleport a human? No… At the moment of teleportation the body flies and and the soul separates causing a premature metempsychosis. The energy of the generator of the Tesla device used on board the USS Eldridge during the Philadelphia experiment jerked reality so hard the the electro plasma representation of the souls vibrated so hard some of the members of the crew detached. The frequency harmonics of the emissions of the resonating hull of the ship actually aligned to the frequency of the souls or lives. Google the blog on same.
    Are we located in our brains or are we actually part of a far vast universal quanta. Imagine the brain itself to be no more than a peripheral device genetically aligned to the DNA representation of the self or soul per-say. Hence both physical and metaphysical must be teleported simultaneously. not possible. Oh yea what happened to the souls of the crew that were left behind? Some say they were seen at a local bar having a sailors brawl in heaven.

    Another point to contemplate. The speed of light. What can travel faster?
    Ok now try this… Extend a glass rod say 20 million parsecs into space, hypothetically of course. Call home teleportation point A and destination B. Now initiate a photon source at A. 80 million light years to reach point B right? Now if you apply pressure and push the entire rod at A when is the reaction or movement felt at point B. Think about it. I coined the phrase instantaneous impulse to define the occurrence. There is truly an unknown yet to be discovered medium involved. You just made an occurrence happen at a distance not even Albert would be able to define. 🙂 Tnx

    Kurt

    August 12, 2009 at 10:24 pm

    • Mental medium? the electromagnetic waves harnessed for the possible “benifit” or loss of all

      S am A llen T aylor

      December 26, 2010 at 2:41 am

  23. What if you could record the vibes in your brains, in decibel?
    then you should teleport the matter, atom by atom, and somehow put it back in?

    Nice ideas

    October 7, 2009 at 11:35 pm

  24. Sigh.

    Sometimes I wish there were places on the internet where you could have discussions as interesting as this without the invasion of metascientific hokum, conspiracy theorists, and general nutbags that always seem to come in. Vibes in your brain. Metempsychosis. The philadelphia experiment. Electroplasma representation of souls. Please.

    The sad part about all this stupid mumbo-jumbo is that there are really interesting conversations to be had based on actual science. Why people spend their time reading and thinking about such crap is beyond me.

    I’m outta here.

    Neil

    October 8, 2009 at 2:39 am

    • Wow you conformist piece of shit. Why dont we start making rules on how to discuss something we know nothing about? Go work for the government and give em some head while your at it. Wierd is good, if your not smart enough to decide what else is good than stop wasting your time learning cause it isnt happening. Take good ideas | leave bad ones – learn from both.

      S am A llen T aylor

      December 26, 2010 at 2:44 am

      • Sorry my comment made you angry. I was perhaps frustrated and too harsh. I won’t respond to the personal attack, because I can’t imagine that either of us want to argue, but here’s what I’ll say:

        First: Obviously “I’m outta here” was wrong. 🙂 I’m too interested in the subject to be scared off.

        You wrote:

        “Take good ideas | leave bad ones – learn from both.”

        I wholeheartedly agree — but how do you decide what is good and what is bad? Everybody has a standard for this, even if it’s subconscious.

        Personally I think that different standards apply to different kinds of ideas. When you’re talking about art, life, or matters of the heart (to name a few) I think that the choice of standards is deeply personal and nobodies standards are better than anyone else’s. For instance, I tend to like music which I find challenging intellectually — someone else might like music which makes them happy, or someone else might like music which is fun to dance to. I can’t say my standard for selecting musical ideas is better than theirs. That would be totally egotistical.

        There is one realm (at least) in which we can apply more absolute standards however — and that’s the realm of physical reality. Reality is absolute — like it or not. Maybe we’re all part of some massive computer simulation or part of the dream of some interdimensional baby — but within that construct we are real. Our universe behaves in a specific and consistent way.

        For this reason, standards for selecting ideas that deal with physical reality do have an innate inferiority/superiority. Those which more closely match reality are better than those that don’t.

        So for me, any idea which doesn’t live inside the realm of what we know to be true about reality is a bad idea. On any given topic that lives at or beyond the border of our understanding (eg Teleportation) there can be countless ideas that live within the bounds of what we know about reality, and I can’t judge any of these beyond personal preference. However, when they ignore what we do know, then I feel comfortable discounting them out of hand. I don’t think that makes me conformist, it makes me sane.

        Let me give you an example — let’s say “Joey” tells you that when he plugs in his lamp, microscopic bacteria that live the metal of the wires all work together to pass bundles of electricity from the socket to the bulb. What would you say to him? Prior to understanding electricity, this is a totally fine idea. But we understand electricity fairly well nowadays — would you really not say to him: “That’s wrong!” — simply because you respect his out of the box thinking?

        In short:

        Yes, weird is good.

        But weird and right is better.

        Neil

        June 5, 2011 at 10:19 pm

  25. so basically for a thing like teleportation to be achieved we would first need to unlock the ability to transport brain waves like the brain transplant in young frankenstein to do something so durastic we need to firs be able to take the mind out of the body leaving it in a vegetable state and then re place it in the copied brain

    joseph

    October 16, 2009 at 11:08 am

  26. theoretically speaking

    joseph

    October 16, 2009 at 11:09 am

  27. What if you didn’t even use adams to teleport what if you used something else.

    person

    October 30, 2009 at 5:46 am

  28. What if you used a substance to transport you.

    person

    October 30, 2009 at 5:48 am

  29. All of this talk about brainwaves and whatnot makes me laugh. Some here should take simple anatomy courses, or read about the physiology of the brain.

    If one were teleported by technological means, assuming they could copy and recreate exact molecular copies down to the the atom detail, then they should turn out as normal humans, no different than the original. This is because if one can do such a thing it would recreate all of the connections currently existing in the brain.

    Even if all synaptic firing stopped, once the senses began sending data back to the brain it would begin firing all over again. There might be a period of disorientation, but it should pass momentarily as the brain started working again. Think of it as restarting a computer. All of the information that makes that computer unique is stored on a hard-drive (connections between neurons in the brain).

    The brain is a giant electro-chemical super-computer. It has software, written on hardward, with communication cables running to input/output devices and all powered by it’s own renewable power plant.

    Of course you do run into the question as to whether the human in question ceased to exist and a clone is created, or perhaps one’s “soul” or whatever supernatural essence is transferred along with the information about their physicality. However, these are theological questions best suited to those seated in armchairs and others wearing the religious cloth.

    Jake

    January 14, 2010 at 11:02 am

    • Hi Jake. It’s always good to have a laugh. 😉

      According to your view, our memories are encoded as concrete/tangible connections on our brains. That view is established and popular.

      However, this theory here suggests that the physical connections are solely the media the memories travel on. When you think about the data moving through the internet, the structure of the network cables is irrelevant and does not affect/contain the message.

      Tomi Itkonen

      January 14, 2010 at 11:29 pm

      • The problem Tomi, is that the “established and popular” view of how the brain works on that level is very heavily supported by actual evidence. It’s technically a theory, but it’s one of those theories that’ so well supported that we should operate with the notion that it is fact. The thought that memories/thoughts are somehow encoded into the pulses of energy themselves and that these can travel anywhere through the brain retaining their original meaning is so POORLY supported by science, that to call it a theory is insulting to the meaning of the word “theory.” Perhaps you can call it a ‘fanciful speculation.’

        As much as I fundamentally agree with that Jake was saying, we have to NOT use computer metaphors when we discuss the brain. There are similarities, but the differences are enough that such metaphors get us into misunderstandings. Example: your internet analogy. That’s true about the internet, but the brain isn’t structured anything like the internet, nor is the information contained on it much like an IP packet.

        Neil

        February 18, 2010 at 6:39 pm

  30. Hello there, Happy Fool’s Day!!!

    Benjamin rushes to his doctor.
    “Doctor, youve got to give me something to make me young again. Ive got a date with this beautiful young girl tonight.”
    His doctor said, “Hold on a second, youre 70 years old, theres really not a lot I can do for you.”
    Benjamin replies, “But doctor, my friend Tony is much older than I am and he says he has sex three times a week.”
    “OK,” says the doctor, “so you say it too!”

    Happy April Fool’s Day!

    Madge

    April 2, 2010 at 1:50 am

  31. Very interesting thoughts everyone. Let’s assume a few simple things, regardless of personal opinion.
    1. The brain will retain thoughts and “self”.
    2. It can be accomplished.
    3. There is no metaphysical attachment to the soul and no bogus conspiracy stuff.
    4. We can transport whole cells, atoms, without intricate analyzations. “The original” as in a star trek type concept.

    Ok.

    How would one go about building a machine like this? Please only educated, professionally based responses. I am very intrigued.

    aspiring theorist

    April 26, 2010 at 9:43 am

    • The Star Trek dramas are usually complicated by fictional situations which require the “old transporter” process to be tuned in, adjusted, reconfigured or the like. When we “move on” to just considering the basic requirements for such a machine, matters get a little simpler — but not much.

      The “de-materializing” will be a mapping process done very quickly and at an incredibly fine resolution. Close won’t count! The mapping will lay out an entire digital model of every atomic and sub-atomic feature of the person being transported.

      We have to hope that a modeling process done at this resolution wouldn’t really have to worry about what we might consider “wave propagation in progress” phenomena. The assumption would be that, once all the even tiniest particles involved were re-materialized at the other end, the “wave form” intricacies would simply re-emerge as a result of the accurate replication of the original system.

      As we consider the molecular population where each element must be assigned a specific location, storing an adequately comprehensive, complete digital model of a human would, by the way, require hardware of immense capacity. The process would also require a system where all process speeds were very much faster than what we might consider fast today.

      On the receiving end, any effort to have a “stockpile” of available atoms and sub-atomic particles complete enough wouldn’t really make sense. For one thing, it would be far too undependable!

      Consequently, the re-materialization stock would have to be something at, say, the resolution of quarks or even smaller. Recall the numerical casting computers which laser melt tiny particles of waxy carbon into three dimensional casting masters. The dust blows through the chamber and the laser, directed by a computer, fastidiously melts bit after bit into a nearly perfect master model from which casting molds can be made.

      A similar, but far more sophisticated process could fill the bill at the destination of the transport. However, as I mentioned previously, there would have to a suitable machine at that distant location, too, a prospect which would still require a material equivalent of galactic “snail mail,” taking years of old fashion star ship travel.

      When challenges such as this reach a conceptual stage where they become existentially possible — although still rife with so many serious difficulties, the prospects of solving the matter move from the tacitly impossible to the remarkably difficult. That’s human progress.

      Chad Hall

      May 9, 2010 at 12:02 am

  32. I realize this is an old thread, but it amazes me the fact that you all are trying to de-materialize and re-materialize someone on the other side. You all know that is impossible because if you de-materialize someone it ceases to exist. If you stop to think for two seconds, you realize the only way is to use a dual singularity and kind of “envelop” (much like entering a plastic bubble) the person around it. The only way to achieve teleportation is to transport the person intact by bending space.

    Geesh…

    Alexandre Silva

    June 3, 2011 at 9:21 pm

    • Two things:

      1. We’re talking about it, because it was the question asked.

      2. An einstein-rosen bridge would be one way of “teleporting,” but you say “You all know that is impossible because if you de-materialize someone it ceases to exist.” — Why? This isn’t apparent at all to me.

      Thought Experiment:

      I buy two pieces of identical paper. I have a computer with a scanner, and another computer with a color laser printer.

      On one of these pieces of paper I print a picture of chuck norris. So now I have a picture of chuck norris printed on a piece of paper. I then scan this paper. I burn the original picture.

      At this point, my picture of chuck norris doesn’t exist.

      Then I take my scanned document and email it from the computer with the scanner to the one with the printer. I use the other piece of paper and print out my scan.

      Now I have my picture of chuck norris again.

      True, it’s not REALLY the same one: it’s made up of different atoms, but it’s the same in every meaningful way. It’s the same picture on the same paper, printed from the same printer.

      A person is a lot more complicated than a picture of Chuck Norris, but how is it apparent that when something is destroyed it cannot be cre-created?

      Neil

      June 5, 2011 at 10:32 pm

      • Hi again, i did not say it could not be re-created, and in your reply, you use the word “True” referring to my answer. No matter how you juggle it, the original is not there anymore :).

        Simply, the original always cease to exist if you take it apart. At least, until another kind of physics is known.

        Look into stationary mass dual singularities.

        Alexandre Silva

        June 6, 2011 at 11:01 am

    • Two things:

      1. We’re talking about it, because it was the question asked.

      2. An einstein-rosen bridge would be one way of “teleporting,” but you say “You all know that is impossible because if you de-materialize someone it ceases to exist.” — Why? This isn’t apparent at all to me.

      Thought Experiment:

      I buy two pieces of identical paper. I have a computer with a scanner, and another computer with a color laser printer.

      On one of these pieces of paper I print a picture of chuck norris. So now I have a picture of chuck norris printed on a piece of paper. I then scan this paper. I burn the original picture.

      At this point, my picture of chuck norris doesn’t exist.

      Then I take my scanned document and email it from the computer with the scanner to the one with the printer. I use the other piece of paper and print out my scan.

      Now I have my picture of chuck norris again.

      True, it’s not REALLY the same one: it’s made up of different atoms, but it’s the same in every meaningful way. It’s the same picture on the same paper, printed from the same printer.

      A person is a lot more complicated than a picture of Chuck Norris, but how is it apparent that when something is destroyed it cannot be re-created?

      Neil

      June 5, 2011 at 10:32 pm

  33. sorry double post. My bad.

    Neil

    June 5, 2011 at 10:33 pm

  34. It is possible (or will be) to capture small singularities using experiments just as the LHC. In essence, black holes can “harnessed” for their properties, like everything in the universe. Of course, to maintain without decay some new stuff needs to be developed, but in time, that is the way to go. No need to “re-create” a copy somewhere if you can send the original intact, wont you agree?

    Alexandre Silva

    June 6, 2011 at 11:06 am

    • *perhaps* it is unnecessary – although it’s frankly anyone’s guess.

      What would be required to create a pair of linked sigularities and make them stable, then somehow create a container that could pass through the bridge without being destroyed — it would be damn difficult, assuming it’s even possible. I don’t think we can say that building and traveling through a wormhole would be easier than the teleportation method described above.

      Consider, for instance, the impact of Special Relativity on entering a black hole. Assuming mainstream theoretical physics is correct, time would distort radically for someone passing through a black hole. If you are passing through such a bridge, the journey might be instantaneous TO YOU, but from the perspective of an outside observer take millions of years!

      It’s all purely speculation at this point.

      Neil

      June 7, 2011 at 8:05 pm

      • Let me clarify something for you regarding your last sentence. I think you might be in error assuming that an outside observer would wait millions of years to see you arrive. Not only do wormholes bend space, they also bend time. It might seem an impossible task at the moment, to control such singularities, but 100 years ago, a space-shuttle would also be considered impossible. I am not saying it won’t be difficult, nothing is ever easy when dealing with advanced physics, but if you can control the bend of space, you surely will be able to control the bending of time. If you do so, logically, you can actually arrive the moment you leave, or very near it. Cesium clocks comes to mind… 🙂

        Cheers,
        Alex

        Alexandre Silva

        June 8, 2011 at 12:54 pm

    • BTW – Just saw your above reply as well.

      You’re right, the original is not there anymore.

      My question to you is, basically: So what?

      Neil

      June 7, 2011 at 8:09 pm

      • Again, you are assuming we do not have a soul, which, can neither be proved or disproved at this time. Beliefs have nothing to do with the truth although they can sometimes overlap. If you disintegrate, and if you do have a soul, what comes out the other side will never be you. I know i am using a few IFs but if you look at it the other way around, you will need to use IFs as well.
        If we use logic to determine what would be the best assumption, and to be on the safe side, would you prefer to lose your soul or to keep it? It is simple. Option A: you do not have a soul – then, if you disintegrate and re-integrate on the other side, although it is still a new copy, the implications are 0. Option B: you do have a soul – then, if you disintegrate and re-integrate on the other side, the implications are enormous. I guess that until we have proof for either case, it is safe to “assume” we do, though making the whole business of de-materialization/materialization a no go. At least for some of us 😉

        Alexandre Silva

        June 8, 2011 at 1:03 pm

  35. A thought that occurred to me is using quantum particles, but in this case, quantum singularities. I do not know if any theory regarding this was ever published, but, just a though. I do not know if it is even possible. I still think that capturing 2 micro singularities and stabilizing them is far easier then mapping the trillions of atoms in the human body.

    Alexandre Silva

    June 8, 2011 at 1:06 pm

    • Hello Alex-

      You make a very good point about singularities — you could bend space-time so that the observer effects are negated by each end of the singularity being at different points in time so as to negate time dilation. Very good point. However, my overall point is that there are still many many unknowns to this idea. I don’t think it’s safe to say it’s 100% feasible.

      You also made a point above about quantum particles — by which I think you mean quantum entanglement — where two distant particles can act identically. If this is a process we could control, then that might be another method of teleportation.

      My main comment stems from what you wrote here:

      “…you are assuming we do not have a soul…”

      You’re almost exactly right, and this is the crux of this debate. I would slightly alter your sentence fragment to read:

      “…you are assuming we do not have a soul which is NOT contained in the atoms of our bodies….”

      This question is what this whole debate boils down to. It’s also at the basis of a lot of the “Big Questions” that face us on the frontiers of science. It’s “Materialism” vs. “Dualism” … look for a long post by me on this topic above.

      As you might have guessed, I don’t think we have a nonmaterial soul. I study brain injury for a living, and have seen far too many people who have been changed by brain damage to the point that they are unrecognizable, even to themselves. Furthermore, I have great respect and admiration for the brain, and see everything we are as fully within the capability of that organ. I personally believe that neuroscience will prove the absence of a soul, although perhaps not in our lifetimes. You’re right that it can neither be proved nor disproved at this time.

      The reason we’re debating teleportation in this manner is that it’s a touchstone for the ‘soul’ debate.

      Your argument of “to be on the safe side, would you prefer to lose your soul or to keep it?” is a version of Pascal’s Wager, is it not?

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager

      (although there’s many rational ways to see a soul and God as separate — you could believe in God and not in Souls, and vice versa)

      I suppose the question if have for you is this: Do you think the existence of a ‘soul’ could be proven or disproven? Or is it totally unknowable? If it is knowable, don’t you think this discovery would proceed any technology for teleportation?

      Neil

      June 8, 2011 at 10:10 pm

      • well considering the soul would have to be made up of highly charged electrons considering the
        the very essence of the bodys movment is electrically driven id have to theorize that there would have to be an electrical form or basis for our bodies and when we die where would that energy go but out hence the human shaped forms we call ghost are merely the energy for of our previous self for example somebody that just passed aay and they have an outter body experience then is defibbed back into their body because of that massive electrical shock which in turn turns them into a giant magnet of sorts technically thats a start of a teleport of sorts just the dying of the body is releasing the electrical energy of the body into sub matter or as wed call it electrical form but if you have noticed they come back into their body with most if not all their memory intact so in all sense in teleporting most of your memory if not all would be there and the for being of a soul would be considered to be real in a scientific point of view!

        willie m jurglyns

        October 3, 2011 at 11:29 am

      • Neil, we tend to speak of the soul in theological terms, but if the soul is part of our biological state, then there is no need for proof. We know that everything that exists is energy, the brain is ruled by electrical impulses, the soul will not be any different. Let’s call the soul for what it is, life energy that binds our physical self with our consciousness. Teleportation, in this view, will be possible only if the energy that is you is shielded from the effect and action of teleporting. Any other way will not teleport you but in fact, it will just make a copy, albeit a good copy, but still a copy, you cease to exist.

        Alexandre Silva

        September 4, 2012 at 11:22 am

  36. what if you destroy that item then you recreate it using electromagnetic waves to move the atom together. Then you can recreate that substance from 3-d cameras and change the electromagnetic field into waves that can place the atoms in same spot so your arm isn’t in your leg

    Tyler

    September 20, 2011 at 4:13 am

  37. Just imagine, the spacetime is parted into small cellas, called quantum grid. This grid should copy from one place to another and remove the original. It is someting you are using a hard disk or a memory block on cmputer. Naturally everithing will remained the same as in the original object. Ie. No memory changes.

    zsolt seller

    September 21, 2011 at 5:08 pm

  38. i dont understand what your trying to say

    Tyler

    September 23, 2011 at 3:21 am

  39. Our “thinkings” are psychically electrons, atoms in the bran ! Simple currents, which affecting our central computer ie. our brain. The thoughts are kept in physical particles’ currents !

    Best regards Zsolt

    Zsolt Seller

    September 23, 2011 at 5:20 pm

  40. considering memory collection is stored at the microscopic level through synapsis of electrical impulses
    and moving them at a rate higher then they actually fire if it was true instant teleportation
    then in therory you would probably lose only the recollection of the past five mins of you prior to traveling
    only because of that momentary interuption of electrical impulse at the time of actual matter break down and reconstruction but the brain has a natural ability to recall from our unconcious mind to reality so that instant would later be recalled because the brain will automactically try and put what reality it best deems the the most logical back together in that instant of dematerialization sort of like a drop in a glass of water though the drop makes ripples in the end once the movement has stopped the glass of water returns to its original state of calm

    willie m jurglyns

    October 3, 2011 at 11:09 am

  41. You are naturally right !!:))

    Just please don”t forget the time step when we are able to teleport ourselves.. E.f. 10`-30 sec we practically will not loose anything ! Thank”a the God we met. Are you physicist ?

    Zsolt

    Zsolt Seller

    October 3, 2011 at 8:02 pm

  42. Teleportation, Simply opening a door to another time space? Sounds strange. I would imagine it would be similar to opening your garage door. You wouldn’t forget anything. Simply because your surroundings are being manipulated. You, yourself are just taking advantage of the open door and walking through. As far as the transference goes… You would probably be cognitive the entire time. Why would be de-atomized when entering our garage?

    Bluespectra

    October 20, 2011 at 5:23 am

  43. teleport hypothesis the way you put it is none sense,, ski and chad please take over the show.

    moungy

    October 28, 2011 at 4:31 pm

  44. t1t2=0, t1=t2 ,t1/t2=1

    ms2

    September 4, 2012 at 3:01 am

  45. I would suggest everyone check out the original posts of John Titor. The man itself is a quack, and considered to be an hoax, but the science is very good and plausible. It is an interesting reading, more so when he explains how the machine works. It is good food for thought.

    Alexandre Silva

    September 4, 2012 at 11:25 am

    • Yes, I agree, Otherwise I think, no living material, just particles, which are built into a “mashine” which is speaking and others…. Then, the teleportation if fast enough, will certainly working on the dead material ie. particles, we call “living”.

      Zsolt

      Zsolt Seller

      September 4, 2012 at 2:20 pm

  46. This ought to be the longest conversation ever, since 2007, but anyway, just dropped by to say happy 2013 and to say that the LHC might be on the brink of being able to capture and maintain a microscopic singularity 🙂

    Alexandre Silva

    December 29, 2012 at 11:11 pm

  47. Teleportation is possible without breaking down anything. The reality is that space is not a constant, but a continuous shift and is being created at slightly above the speed of light (SOL). Space by definition is merely viewpoint of dimension. To create teleportation the needed elements would be: 1) an ability to duplicate at the life-energy level the same slightly-above-static wavelength capturing 3D mental image pictures (this wavelength is known), 2) an electro-magnetic “screen” with particles traveling across from one side to another at the rate of speed just above SOL. this does not have to be a dense screen or “heavy” energy. Behind the screen an elevator-sized cube of space (projected) that has the equivalent of a 3D image model of the will-be space position. Behind that another screen running in reverse. A person connects to a wearable machine wirelessly with their own life-energy and projects location mentally or agrees to planned place, then “walks” into the screen in front of the cube being projected. The screen, cube and second screen itself is the space-shift. The illusion inside the cube is a space-duplicate and shifted with a reverse screen behind the cube (the 2nd screen will be created by a re-usable secondary object, probably a leave-behind or stable “terminal.). Basically this system creates “duplicate spaces,” one that is a “rogue space” and temporarily created with high energy particle motion, equivalent to the same radiation we have off any sun, and disappears when the machine is turned off. In other words, teleportation is possible with electromagnetic screen projections off a future smart-helmet or space-phone. It shifts space itself, not the person.

    Blue

    July 13, 2015 at 10:02 am

  48. Btw, has anyone heard or read about Blank Slate Technology and its connection to reality matrix?

    Alexandre Silva

    July 13, 2015 at 3:38 pm


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