Theory – Teleport Hypothesis
Hypothetically, if we were teleported to an other place, atom by atom, we would physically resemble the same person. In my view, however, our memory would be blank and our thoughts would be on the level of a new born.
Review and comment “On How the Brain Functions” theory.
Hypothetically, if we were teleported to an other place, atom by atom, we would physically resemble the same person. In my view, however, our memory would be blank and our thoughts would be on the level of a new born.
Perhaps, that’s the only way to stop all the wars – for a while. Teleport 6 billion people to another place and make their mind blank. “What the heck! What’s this? And that?” But, if physical resemblance is possible, why wouldn’t the mental one be?
Joni Tuoreniemi
February 9, 2007 at 2:44 am
Firstly, teleportation can be discussed only on a highly hypothetical level as it does not yet have any scientific basis.
The mental resemblance vanishes, because the waves are not teleported. In other words the state of the mind, which consists of moving electromagnetic waves, does not get copied and rebuilt through the process.
Consider that there were a method of teleporting a copper wire. Each atom of the wire would be scanned to get a 3D snapshot of the object. Then the atoms would be reconstructed a long distance away, according to the snapshot, and we’d get a similar copper wire. But: if there were data (waves) moving on the wire at the time of teleportation, how would you “record” a snapshot of the moving electromagnetic waves, and then after the teleported wire is ready, release similar moving waves on it.
Another way to put this: you can put the water of a river to tanks, and transport it elsewhere, but you can not move the flow of the river.
Tomi Itkonen
February 10, 2007 at 1:40 am
Tomi Itkonen i am afraid your missing a point, the concept of ‘teleportation’ is that yes, a 3-D snapshot of the object is taken and is supposedly transferred to another place. There are two ways in which this could happen.
1. The object is broken down to a molecular scale and tranferred to another place, which doesnt comply with the non-teleportation theorum.
or
2. The object is recorded in a snapshot and then recreated in another place. Which doesn’t comply with the no-cloning theorum
Both of these, if possible, can possibly prove your theory wrong, although a humans mind is stored in electromagnetic waves, or pulses, these pulses are also a physical being which is active and would therefore be found and copied, and assuming you make it through the teleportaion you would either be the same person, or you would have an exact clone of youself from that point onwards.
The other problem is that teleportation requires the dissassembly and reassembly, or just assembly, of atoms and in option 1 the human would die as they are disassebled, in option 2 the human clone would be dead.
Paul Tudsbury
April 28, 2007 at 7:51 am
Are you sure cause when i did it in halo it worked fine
BOB
November 5, 2009 at 3:12 am
Hi Paul. About teleportation… At this point, it seems inconceivable to imagine a method for releasing an electromagnetic wave, remotely, into a specific point in 3D space.
However, that might be possible in the future, or there even could be a way of achieving it now, already.
Tomi Itkonen
September 12, 2007 at 10:35 pm
Hello guys, can you really be sure that the human mind and memory waves are not created by the physical structure of the brain and therefore will be sent as they were before the teleportation? I mean the electromagnetic waves have to be created somehow they cannot just be, as Tomi said: “Another way to put this: you can put the water of a river to tanks, and transport it elsewhere, but you can not move the flow of the river.” BUT if you take along the stones and the bottom of the river and recreate it in the same heights and so on, will not the flow be the same ?
Sebastian Svensson
July 24, 2008 at 6:04 pm
Hi Sebastian.
Generally, from a distance, the flow of the transported river would be the same if both of the rivers had identical structure. But then you factor in the small, intricate details that affect the flow upstream: the changing wind conditions, the dropping leaves from the trees nearby, etc. Each of those leave their miniscule mark to the actual flow. In other words, when a leaf drops to the river, it generates small waves which change the body of water – the flow of the river.
So, copying of the riverbed is not enough in this case. One also has to copy the history of the river upstream.
Regarding “…the electromagnetic waves have to be created somehow…”:
This theory suggests that the things we e.g. hear and see generate changing electrical current and electromagnetic waves which start travelling in our brains. To use the river analogy, when we experience something, the flow of our “inner river” changes.
Tomi Itkonen
August 3, 2008 at 1:00 am
I think that the mental waves that are flowing through our brains must be made of the same “physical” particles our atoms are made of. several particles have been observed, even though they have no mass or actual substance, including the neutrio. If the snapshot required for the teleportation would recognize all protons, neutrons, and electrons making up the atoms of our body, i think it would be more than capable of observing the particles not trapped within the atoms, such as the photons and electrons that create the electric/electromagnetic waves flowing through our nerves.
EHack
August 13, 2009 at 8:19 am
well if teleportation is a dissesembling and ressembling of atoms than the electro magnetic waves should have a chance of going with u on your trip since everything is made up of atoms and that fact should not be exploited
i dont even no
August 28, 2008 at 8:16 pm
and also if teleportatoin is cloning than cloning will make u come out the other end with every aspect of ur old self physical and mental so its a win win
i dont even no
August 28, 2008 at 8:23 pm
I presume you are all missing the point. How it actually works is our thought patterns are recording in the atoms much like a cd is an emulation of the data stored. This is why people see ghosts, which are nothing more than recordings in the surrounding walls and items. These are also made up with the same building blocks we call matter. Let’s think outside the box, as it were.
Engineer8296
September 12, 2008 at 11:35 am
Teleportation is a fool’s folly for a transportation method. It could have medical applications in organ reconstruction, cancer and bacterial/viral removal.
Basic steps to teleportation
1. Scan object (enzyme signature, atomic signatures, molecular construction)
2. DESTROY object at origination point.
3. Create object at destination from available material.
4. Program and jump-start higher level organism.
For medical applications, only part of the process is used.
vlcncwntr2012
September 13, 2008 at 8:47 am
“Generally, from a distance, the flow of the transported river would be the same if both of the rivers had identical structure. But then you factor in the small, intricate details that affect the flow upstream: the changing wind conditions, the dropping leaves from the trees nearby, etc. Each of those leave their miniscule mark to the actual flow. In other words, when a leaf drops to the river, it generates small waves which change the body of water – the flow of the river.”
So if I am walking in the desert at the time of teleportation, and am teleported to an iceberg in Alaska, obviously I will go from being hot to being cold. It is a completely irrelevant point to be made.
Considering that teleportation would be a nearly instantanous process, the current physical state of the object being teleported would be identical at the moment of recreation, which is, consequently, all teleportation portends to do in the first place. The flow of the river (as per your example) may change AFTER teleportation has concluded, due to “miniscule” factors that you have listed, but that does not have any effect on the validity of teleportation.
Also, you should consider the teleportation of an object from its current location to its current location, which is absolutely possible since the original would be destroyed and recreated. If you were to teleport the riverbed in place, the miniscule factors that exist outside the transported area would still be there at the conclusion of the teleportation process, and would still affect the riberbed just as they did prior to teleportation.
You also have to consider that external actions on the river itself (i.e. jumping into it) disrupt the natural flow of the river itself. So a leaf falling from a tree, though it has an extremely minimal effect on the flow of the river, is actually a disruption of the normal flow of the river — it is temporary, not constant. You had said, “it generates small waves which change the body of water – the flow of the river.” Again, those waves are a temporary occurence that are almost immediately disspitated by the natural flow of the river (which is created by the structure of the riverbed itself, the subject of teleportation). And yes, you could say that some external actions have a permanent effect on the riverbed. After all, it was via external forces (i.e. landslides etc) that the riverbed was created in the first place, thereby dictating the flow of water. But it would be folly to state that teleportation does not work because it doesnt take into account the future occurences of external actions on the riverbed at its previous location that would have or might have affected the course of the rivers flow.
~M
M Ward
September 13, 2008 at 2:55 pm
Very interesting comments. Mainly my view is that on teleportation, the state of our brain (thoughts, memories, i.e. “data flow”) does not get carried across.
But, of course, if the teleportation method used accesses the very bottom of atomic fabric – which is largely unknown and a mystery at the moment (string theory, …) – then I’d see the “data flow” is also copied over on the process.
Regarding M Ward’s: “leafs falling from tree create waves which are only *temporary* occurences”. On our brains, I’d suggest that some of the waves actually do not vanish and travel constantly, transforming on the process. You perhaps remember some song you heard a few years back? The point I’m trying to make is that our brains are a carrier of waves (electromagnetic ones). Some of the waves vanish (forgetting occurs), some keep on travelling. Everything is turned into a wave: the words you read, the images you see, the muscle movements of the fingers…
Tomi Itkonen
September 13, 2008 at 11:31 pm
well it doesnt really even matter not like were gonna do anything with teleportation any way
i dont even no
September 14, 2008 at 1:47 am
guys I just figured out how to teleport things by using 1000 jolts of electricity. What you do is you use negative and Positive electricity you use the negative electricity to vaporize and collect all the atoms put through a machine that remakes the form of the object most likely using radioactive magnetism then letting it come out through positive electricity, sorry that’s as far as I got.
Ben Allen
March 19, 2009 at 3:40 am
Do you know that Scientists actually manged to Teleport 1 atom with a Collosal amount of equipment?
How much equipmant do you actually need to teleport a WHOLE person??
Jim
May 18, 2009 at 5:56 am
Hi Jim. It would be great to have a link to the experiment you mention.
Tomi Itkonen
May 19, 2009 at 12:37 am
The disolution of the matter being transported requires a full mapping of the atomic material, that is, a mapping which is resolved to the detail of hadrons or below. Likewise, the subsequent materialization will require the construction of the transported material at an equivalent resolution. Although characterizing sensation or memory as “signal” waves (i.e: a river flowing) is probably making the challenge much less daunting, the extreme sub-atomic accuracy of the successful teleporter would also transport the generated waves. They would be replicated in momentary accuracy because their presence would be “frozen” in static forms of the electrons of the molecules of the “conductor.” When the atomic structure is reassembled, all the conductive participants of the wave transmission would also be reassembled, the wave would “reform,” and propagate as if its reassembled position were adjacent to its last location just before dematerialization.
So? There’s nothing to it!
Chad Hall
June 1, 2009 at 12:36 pm
Hello Tomi. Your hypothesis just seems ilogical for me. I did like the comment from Paul Tudsbury and I think You didn’t get the point of him.
In some of your comments You are speaking about fictional teleportation system. You mention: “very bottom of atomic fabric – which is largely unknown and a mystery at the moment (string theory, …)”. However at least I haven’t heard that our thoughts would be connected to quantum fields or something. I am wondering where did you read it…
You claim that our mind is in poor electromagnetic waves state. Well that should make our thoughts to be as “fast” as light. Moreover that should make our brains to be particularly effected by the “noises” from enviroment. However we use devices like mobile phones and our thoughts doesn’t get disorted.
I have learned at school that neaurons transmit signals among each other throught chemical reactions. I beleave that all the processes in our brains are based on chemical reactions.
You might argue that chemical reactions are based on electromagnetic waves and even super-strigs are envolved. Well yes, I agree. However those theories are just like the wires for device (the divece won’t function without them, however wires are not the key which gives a function for that device).
A kid does not need to know how the electricity work to explain that, if electricity is ON the light will shine. I believe that in the similar manier we can explain how our brains works without getting deep in string theories and light waves.
Ski
June 8, 2009 at 4:59 am
I have no problem with — at least temporarily — relieving the discussion of the complications which would be insinuated into the mix by both quantum and “string theory” (in the Hilbert “trans dimensional sense, at least). When we adhere more closely to defining the teleportation concept based on self-observation of what the “before and after” states might be, the focus of questions lands pretty squarely on what we think “we are doing right now” — that is, what is our state when we are opening the door to go into the teleportation booth for a quick trip somewhere. Those conclusions imply necessary aspects of what the process will be doing.
On the other hand, since we are “dreaming,” quantum entanglement might seriously expand to range of our teleporter, suggest a novel approach to “rematerialization,” and make our teleportation system an instantaneous “bullet train” to any location in the universe.
After we have perfected solutions to those small dilemmas, we can begin to plan some way to get the machinery for the “receiving end” to these destinations in the first place. Somehow, a thirty thousand year trip in a light speed freighter doesn’t really seem to “fill the bill.”
Chad Hall
June 8, 2009 at 10:48 pm
In theory it would only be possible if we have COMPLETE understanding of the human body. If you can break down every single part of I.E the brain into data (Experiences, thoughts, feelings etc.) and have the means to reconstruct it at the other side the “clone” would be you. However, you still have the problem that if you destoy something at the other side the thing that comes out might be EXACTLY the same but still not have the same conciousness. That would prove people have some sort of a soul. That even if you copy ALL functions, completely reconstruct the brain the person would STILL be different.
Guido
June 17, 2009 at 11:21 pm
There is no particularly persuasive argument that humans are designed in a manner making COMPLETE understanding much of a possibility. Our semantic narcotic, “truth,” is best relegated to a status of “temporarily accurate.” Waiting for a convincing encounter with COMPLETE understanding of anything might prove frustratingly elusive for the realists among us.
But, dreaming around on a site addressing teleportation pretty well excludes such stuffy folks. In any event, I see no reason which makes a “COMPLETE understanding of the brain” a prerequisite
condition for teleporting one successfully.
In the meantime, I have three pieces of luggage aside from my carry on, and I would prefer a seat with a “view.”
Chad Hall
June 18, 2009 at 8:56 am
I’m afraid that there are some fundamental scientific misunderstandings of the brain at work in this discussion which are clouding the issue.
Data is neither stored nor transmitted in the brain as “electromagnetic waves.” The brain does GENERATE electromagnetic waves, but as a not nearly in the same way that electricity travelling through a copper wire does. I’ll keep the my explanation of nerve impulses brief (therefore it will have some inaccuracies by omission)
Neurons receive/send impulses to their neighbors at a junction called a synapse through a totally chemical process using neurotransmitters. Given a teleporter that could “copy every atom” then the chemistry at a synapse would be preserved.
To carry a signal along a neuron (from input to output) it uses a fairly complex reaction of VOLTAGE POTENTIAL — ie at resting state, organelles in the surface of the neuron pump charged ions in/out of the cell so that the voltage outside the cell is different than the voltage inside the cell. When a neuron is activated at the input synapse, the area area around the cell literally opens, allowing the charged ions on either side of the membrane to start flowing in/out of the cell through the natural tendency of the universe to neutralize voltage. This causes a chain reaction, with areas of the cell further on also opening to allow ion flow. This process runs very quickly along the cell body, and that’s how an impulse is carried along a single neuron. This change in potential along the cell body is what creates an electromagnetic wave.
This process carries signals very quickly through a neuron, something like 250 meters per second (for mylenated neurons — an unimportant detail for this discussion). This is much faster than the action at a synapse but much SLOWER than C, the speed of light. Thinking of the brain as a network of copper wires is folly.
There’s another reason the copper wire analogy is wrong — unlike wires, the brain is constantly rewiring itself, forming/breaking connections between neurons. Memories/thoughts/preferences/personality do not appear to be stored as impulses, but rather in the wiring between cells. Thinking of your brain as a bit of computer RAM isn’t really accurate!
Personally, I believe that if you could transfer every bit of matter (and it’s current velocity!) from one position to another, you would have ‘the same person’ on the other end.
But i’d like to point out that the deep question we are discussing is not teleportation, but one of Neurophilosophy — IE what is the mind? (Guido was hinting at this in his post above….)
There are two competing schools of thought: Materialism and Dualism.
Materialists believe that everything that makes up life and consciousness is represented in it’s totality in the physical being and construction of the body/brain. A materialist world view precludes a soul, spirit, animating force, or even a seperation between the ‘mind’ and the brain.
Dualists, on the other hand, tend to view the brain as something of a vessel for some kind of other life-force, whatever you want to call it. This is not an unscientific viewpoint, there is evidence (personal, anecdotal, and empirical) that the ’self’ is connected to but not fully rooted in, the brain.
Personally, as someone who studies brain injury, I am a materialist. I have seen too many people who have suffered brain damage in some way (physical, pathological, biological) which has altered their person in such profound ways as to convince me that I *am* my brain. So for that reason, I do believe, given technology that could recreate all my matter at a second location exactly then destroy my matter at the original location, that I would still be “me” and I would be effectively teleported. A dualist would not believe this idea, and that unless we could understand how this “other” portion of living/thinking works and recreate that as well, teleportation would not work.
I am reminded of the movie The Fly (the Jeff Goldblum one) which in it’s own scientifically facetious way comes out strongly on the side of dualism.
Here are some interesting thought experiments which I often ask to people to determine if they are, at their core, dualists or materialists:
1.) Let’s say you have a teleportaion machine that works perfectly, as described, except that it does not destroy the original. One second after teleportation, the two individuals would have had different experiences and therefore be different, but AT THE VERY MOMENT of teleportation, would they be truly identical?
2.) Would a teleportation machine that copies an individual moment at a fixed moment in time and then destroy the original also be a murder machine? Would not destroying the original you effectively be a form of suicide?
3.) Let’s say we can create artificial intelligence as smart and self-aware as a human. Would that computer have as strong a right-to-life as a human?
4.) Let’s say we can take a 3-D snapshot of your brain, and recreate your brain exactly inside of a computer, and then destroy the original you at that same instant. Would you be dead or alive?
OK, time to get back to work!
Neil
July 17, 2009 at 3:46 pm
Can I teleport a human? No… At the moment of teleportation the body flies and and the soul separates causing a premature metempsychosis. The energy of the generator of the Tesla device used on board the USS Eldridge during the Philadelphia experiment jerked reality so hard the the electro plasma representation of the souls vibrated so hard some of the members of the crew detached. The frequency harmonics of the emissions of the resonating hull of the ship actually aligned to the frequency of the souls or lives. Google the blog on same.
Are we located in our brains or are we actually part of a far vast universal quanta. Imagine the brain itself to be no more than a peripheral device genetically aligned to the DNA representation of the self or soul per-say. Hence both physical and metaphysical must be teleported simultaneously. not possible. Oh yea what happened to the souls of the crew that were left behind? Some say they were seen at a local bar having a sailors brawl in heaven.
Another point to contemplate. The speed of light. What can travel faster?
Tnx
Ok now try this… Extend a glass rod say 20 million parsecs into space, hypothetically of course. Call home teleportation point A and destination B. Now initiate a photon source at A. 80 million light years to reach point B right? Now if you apply pressure and push the entire rod at A when is the reaction or movement felt at point B. Think about it. I coined the phrase instantaneous impulse to define the occurrence. There is truly an unknown yet to be discovered medium involved. You just made an occurrence happen at a distance not even Albert would be able to define.
Kurt
August 12, 2009 at 10:24 pm
What if you could record the vibes in your brains, in decibel?
then you should teleport the matter, atom by atom, and somehow put it back in?
Nice ideas
October 7, 2009 at 11:35 pm
Sigh.
Sometimes I wish there were places on the internet where you could have discussions as interesting as this without the invasion of metascientific hokum, conspiracy theorists, and general nutbags that always seem to come in. Vibes in your brain. Metempsychosis. The philadelphia experiment. Electroplasma representation of souls. Please.
The sad part about all this stupid mumbo-jumbo is that there are really interesting conversations to be had based on actual science. Why people spend their time reading and thinking about such crap is beyond me.
I’m outta here.
Neil
October 8, 2009 at 2:39 am
so basically for a thing like teleportation to be achieved we would first need to unlock the ability to transport brain waves like the brain transplant in young frankenstein to do something so durastic we need to firs be able to take the mind out of the body leaving it in a vegetable state and then re place it in the copied brain
joseph
October 16, 2009 at 11:08 am
theoretically speaking
joseph
October 16, 2009 at 11:09 am
What if you didn’t even use adams to teleport what if you used something else.
person
October 30, 2009 at 5:46 am
What if you used a substance to transport you.
person
October 30, 2009 at 5:48 am